Ultimate Reality

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Posts by Ultimate Reality

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  24

  A, uh, belated introduction

  by SweetBabyCheezits in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  quick bio: born-in, third gen jw, devout family, dad an elder/po, mom pioneered off/on, baptized at age 10 (my elder dad asked me to wait but i didnt), had overall good childhood, toured bethel, aux pio off/on, finished hs early, reg pio for a year then pio school, met amazing jw girl (also third gen devout), spent a year in community college (paid for by fairly conservative jw parents), got a good job, married amazing jw girl, appointed as ms, delivered public talks and parts on ca/dc, wife and i had first child.

  it was a near-storybook jw life (except no bethel).

  i had a couple of normal issues in teenage years, but sought the assistance from the elders and ironed it out.

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  Ultimate Reality

  Welcome!
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  22

  The Governing Body and the Sept 15, 2010 WT

  by Ultimate Reality in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there have been a few threads on this magazine already.

  but i cannot recall a wt that has so many references to the gb and its authority throughout the articles as this one.

  the grip of authority and control is tightening.

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  Ultimate Reality

  Thomas:

  Great point, reading in the 1st person. This is a good idea in every article in order to see the real intent. The WT use of language has become more seductive and creative over the decades. But it is clear that all are to be loyal followers of the Governing Body and numerous articles since the start of the 'Study Edition' have been highlighting this authority. These men are to have unqualified and unconditional support from their followers.

  Flipper:

  Thanks. I think these articles provide further proof that the organization is in a state of decay.
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  22

  The Governing Body and the Sept 15, 2010 WT

  by Ultimate Reality in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  there have been a few threads on this magazine already.

  but i cannot recall a wt that has so many references to the gb and its authority throughout the articles as this one.

  the grip of authority and control is tightening.

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  Ultimate Reality

  There have been a few threads on this magazine already. But I cannot recall a WT that has so many references to the GB and its authority throughout the articles as this one. The grip of authority and control is tightening. What is being written is making it ever more obvious that the 8 men of the GB are the source of mediation to God and source of salvation for humankind. Here are some highlights:
  
  Without the assistance of “the faithful and discreet slave,” we would neither understand the full import of what we read in God’s Word nor know how to apply it. (Matt. 24:45-47) - page 8
  
  The One Source of Spiritual Instruction First-century Christians enjoyed unity because they all received encouragement from the same source. They recognized that Jesus was teaching and directing the congregation through a governing body, composed of the apostles and older men in Jerusalem. - page 13 Similarly today, a Governing Body composed of spirit-anointed Christians contributes to the unity of the worldwide congregation. The Governing Body publishes spiritually encouraging literature in many languages. This spiritual food is based on God’s Word. Thus, what is taught is not from men but from Jehovah.—Isa. 54:13. - page 13
  
  Accordingly, as Jehovah’s people, we are united because we accept Jehovah’s sovereignty, love our brothers, hope in God’s Kingdom, and respect the ones God uses to take the lead among us. - page 14
  
  Jehovah’s spirit and blessings are linked to the one association of brothers that God is using. Even if someone in the congregation upsets us, where else can we turn? Nowhere else can we hear the sayings of everlasting life.—John 6:68. - page 18
  
  The apostles and the elders of the Jerusalem congregation acted as a governing body. Christ used this instrument to lead the entire group of his anointed “brothers” on earth. (Heb. 2:11; Acts 16:4, 5) In this time of the end, Christ has committed “all his belongings”— all the earthly interests of the Kingdom—to his “faithful and discreet slave” and its representative Governing Body, a group of anointed Christian men. (Matt. 24:45-47) The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the modern-day Governing Body, they are in fact following their Leader, Christ. - page 23
  
  Since being invested with kingly power in 1914, Christ is more than ever “with” his disciples and active as their Leader. His intense activity since 1914 will be examined in the following article. - page 25 [... in case anyone thinks the Society's chronology is not important...}
  
  Jesus had prophesied that “on arriving” to inspect his domestics during “the conclusion of the system of things,” he would find a slave providing them “food at the proper time.” He would pronounce that slave happy and would “appoint him over all his belongings” on earth. (Matt. 24:3, 45-47) - page 26
  
  As Head of the Christian congregation, Christ has used this “faithful and discreet slave” to administer His Kingdom interests on earth. He has provided direction for the anointed “domestics” and their “other sheep” companions by means of a Governing Body.—John 10:16. - page 26
  
  They recognize, however, that Christ is using a small group of anointed Christian men as a Governing Body to lead and direct his disciples on earth.—Read Acts 15:6, 28-30. - page 27
  
  This refers to Christ’s coming as Judge to separate people of “all the nations” into two categories: “the sheep,” those who will have actively supported his spiritual brothers (anointed Christians on earth) and “the goats,” those “who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus.” (2 Thess. 1:7, 8) -page 29
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  87

  Official: Ted Jaracz's Funeral Brochure

  by yknot in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i received this generous offering from 'anonymous brother'.

  his comments : hmmm...why do i not see such things at most jw funerals?.

  please give your 'thank you' to "anonymous brother'.

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  Ultimate Reality

  Note how he encouraged the brothers through "theocratic orderliness".
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  32

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 06-13-10 WT Study (HOLY SPIRIT)

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  comments you will not hear at the 06-13-10 wt study (april 15, 2010, pages 7-11 (purpose).

  as we have seen, jehovah used his spirit in the past to protect individuals as well as the nation of israel as a whole.

  why doesnt god protect individuals today?.

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  Ultimate Reality

  Thanks Blondie! I actually wish I was at the WT Study today. I am sure that by the time paragraphs 13 and 14 roll around, no one will know what hit them because their minds will already be tied in knots.
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  12

  How do you answer to the "new light" excuse?

  by XPeterX in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when a jw uses proverbs 4:18 what can you say to prove that he's wrong?.

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  Ultimate Reality

  Coffee is right. This is easy to address, there is no way to scripturally defend the 'new light' concept.
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  64

  Twisting Scripture vs A Literal Reading

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  knowing that passions run deep on this matter, i have what i believe to be a very simple premise for a discussion of how to read the bible.. terry has labored over the last couple of months to demonstrate (in my view, conclusively) that the bible is far from unaltered, and often mistranslated.

  these facts, inconvenient as they might be for believers, are nonetheless, a problem for those who claim that the bible is the word of god.. this is not what i wish to discuss... rather..... jehovah's witnesses come from a tradition of "reading in" or "adding meaning" to the scriptures.

  no one jw outside of the governing body is allowed to do this.. but why is it necesarry?.

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  Ultimate Reality

  How to read ancient texts, including the Bible, is the subject of many commentaries. For instance, should we read the Mosaic law internally? In other words, as if we were an Israelite, in order to get the clearest meaning. Or externally, with a close-reading and critical analysis of virtually every word?

  What has cleared up the meaning of many Biblical verses for me is to perform more an internal, literal reading and determine (as best we know) who wrote it, when it was written, and to whom. This does not mean ignoring symbolism or metaphors, obviously.

  The literal approach means abandoning the Society's favorite interpretive reading: parallel dispensations. The idea that the Bible contains double-meanings and secondary, larger fulfillments is unsupported scripturally and has led to one failed interpretation after another.

  As an example of how understanding the historical context can impact a literal reading, Christendom determined that Revelation was written in 96CE. The Society also has adopted this view which is largely based on ambiguous comments made by Ireneaus. However, many scholars feel a pre-70CE dating is more accurate and, when the bulk of Revelation is applied to the events concluding the Jewish system, it presents a much clearer interpretation than the Society's non-sense. The same would be true of Matthew 24; one single application in the 1st century.

  Whether or not one puts faith in the Bible is a different matter. But few even attempt to take an exegetical approach and seem to be looking for a hidden message about the near-future, and somehow they always find it because, they think, God has granted them special wisdom.
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  8

  Jesus is NOT the mediator for all?

  by Ultimate Reality in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the current interpretation of the watchtower society is that christs role as mediator applies only to a small group of individuals - the 144,000. the assumption is that since the new covenant applies to their roles and kings and priests, jesus mediates between them and jehovah god, while those with an earthly hope are often described as beneficiaries of this arrangement.

  for more information on this, see jwfacts.com.

  there is some shifty reasoning used by the society to justify their view that christ actually mediates for fewer people than moses:.

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  Ultimate Reality

  The current interpretation of the Watchtower Society is that Christ’s role as mediator applies only to a small group of individuals - the 144,000. The assumption is that since the new covenant applies to their roles and kings and priests, Jesus’ mediates between them and Jehovah God, while those with an earthly hope are often described as ‘beneficiaries’ of this arrangement. For more information on this, see jwfacts.com

  There is some shifty reasoning used by the Society to justify their view that Christ actually mediates for fewer people than Moses:

  The Watchtower of November 15, 1979, page 26, made this comment:

  “What, then, is Christ’s role in this program of salvation? Paul proceeds to say: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men [not, all men], a man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.”—1 Tim. 2:5, 6.

  The insertion "[not, all men]" is the Society blatantly changing the meaning of the Bible.

  This question was raised again in a 1989 Questions From Readers (w 8/15/89 p 30-31):

  “Is Jesus the Mediator only for spirit-anointed Christians or for all mankind, since 1 Timothy 2:5, 6 speaks of him as the “mediator” who “gave himself a corresponding ransom for all”?”

  The Watchtower answer to this question on the mediator centers on the following legal concept:

  “The Greek word me·si′tes, used for “mediator,” means ‘one who finds himself between two bodies or parties.’ It was a ‘many-sided technical term of Hellenistic legal language.’ Professor Albrecht Oepke (Theological Dictionary of the New Testament) says that me·si′tes was “one of the most varied technical terms in the vocabulary of Hellen[istic] law. ” (w 8/15/89 p 30-31)

  So, it is a "many-sided technical" term. But they never bother to define what it means! Nor do they cite the source.

  However, after some searching you'll find comment was taken from the 1967 edition of the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament. Notice what this dictionary stated on page 588 (1985 edition) regarding 1 Timothy 2:5, 6:

  “In 1 Tim. 2:5-6 we find a Christianized use. The one God wills that all people be saved, and there is one Mediator representing God to them and them to God, i.e., Christ Jesus in his sacrificial death.”

  Beginning to see a difference in how mediator should be defined?

  Professor Jerome H. Neyrey, Ph.D. (Yale University), a professor of New Testament Studies at the University of Notre Dame, made the following comments on Oepke’s definition:

  Writing on "mediator" in 1967, Albert Oepke identified the following social roles in the ancient world that exemplify the role of broker or mediator. A mesites is a person who (I) is "neutral" to two parties and negotiates peace or guarantees agreements, (2) arranges business deals, (3) receives as king divine laws and offers sacrifice for the people, (4) offers as priest prayers and sacrifice to God on behalf of individuals and the people, (5) brings as prophet a teaching or mighty work from God, (6) founds a new cult or religion, and (7) delivers as angel communication from God.

  As Oepke also notes, the New Testament calls Jesus a broker in many ways: he is the unique mediator between the one God and humankind (1 Tim 2:5), the mediator of the new covenant (Heb 8:6; 9:15; 12:24) and a "priest according to the order of Melchizedek" (Heb 5:6; 6:20; 7:17). In contrast to the Levitical priesthood, Jesus' priesthood/brokerage is vastly superior because Jesus "is able for all time to save those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them" (Heb 7:25). - Worship in the fourth gospel: a cultural interpretation of John 14-17 -- Part II

  Finally, to put this legal word business to rest, here is how should we legally define the word mediator as used by Paul:

  “[Paul] calls him the mediator, the mesities. Mesities comes from mesos, which, in this case, means in the middle. A mesities is, therefore, one who stands in the middle between two people and brings them together. When Job is desperately anxious that somehow he should be able to put his case to God, he cries out hopelessly: 'There is no umpire [mesities] between us' (Job 9:33). Paul calls Moses the mesities (Galations 3;19) in that he was the one between, who brought the law from God to the people. In Athens in classical times, there was a body of men - all citizens in their sixtieth year - who could be called upon to act as mediators when there was a dispute between two citizens, and their first duty was to bring about a reconciliation. In Rome, there were arbitri. The judge settled points of law; but the arbitri settled matters of what was fair and just; and it was their duty to bring disputes to an end. Further, in legal Greek, a mesities was a sponsor, a guarantor or a surety. He put up a bail for a friend who was on trial; he guaranteed a debt or an overdraft. The mesities was someone who was willing to pay a friend's debt to make things right again.”

  - William Barclay (1907-1978), Professor of Divinity and Biblical Criticism Glasgow University in Scotland, Letter to the Hebrews, p. 106.

  Biblically speaking, Jesus ‘bailed out’ all that faithfully accept his ransom sacrifice. He paid our debt, the debt incurred by sin, with his shed blood. This cannot possibly be applied to a limited group of individuals. Paul’s use of this legal term (when the actual definition is understood) is all-encompassing and should not be limited to a certain elite class of people.

  The only reason for maintaing this teaching is so the Governing Body can enforce their claim of authority as the mediator appointed over Christ's belongings that all must support in order to 'be saved'.
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  6

  New Jeremiah Book Question

  by Ultimate Reality in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  if anyone has this book, could you please quote or scan whatever section covers jeremiah 25 and the 70 years issue in that chapter?.

  some in my family thought that a new jeremiah release would answer my 'questions' about the 70 years interpretation.

  now, i am sure they will be happy to hear about this book, thinking that 'jehovah has provided the food at the proper time.

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  Ultimate Reality

  If anyone has this book, could you please quote or scan whatever section covers Jeremiah 25 and the 70 years issue in that chapter?

  Some in my family thought that a new Jeremiah release would answer my 'questions' about the 70 years interpretation. Now, I am sure they will be happy to hear about this book, thinking that 'Jehovah has provided the food at the proper time.' Well, I am anxious to see just what answers are coming from the 'slave'!

  Thanks!
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  28

  Malawi Congress Party cards

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  under watchtower doctrine, during the 1960s and 1970s witnesses in the african nation of malawi suffered terrible crimes against them for refusing to purchase malawi congress party cards.

  how many participants here have ever viewed a malawi congress party card both inside and outside?.

  marvin shilmer.

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  Ultimate Reality

  Marvin,

  Please at least post scans of the documents you have, even if you do not have any commentary ready for them yet. There are some here who would find it most useful in exposing this topic. Thanks.

  --UR